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Post by maybee on Jul 27, 2009 7:34:50 GMT -5
I have been zero till for about nine years. I have found 1 15 acre field and a few other spots have hard soil from seeding when wet. The roots are not going down. I was woundering about the best way to cure this problem. Would tilling it 4-5 inches work, or seeding something to break it up? Don't want alfalfa because i do not have hay equipment and the guys around here have more than enouph. Any suggestions ?
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Post by Agguy on Jul 30, 2009 7:57:23 GMT -5
Yes doing a shallow till will break up hard pan. Zero till has many benifits but hard pan or plow pan can occur. Doing a till every 4-5- years on known hard spots will defeintaly help. Being that your soil is turning hard is your soil tests showing higher calcium and magnesium levels and maybe higher sulphur levels ??. Calcium and magneium bind with the clays to harden soils and the two will tie up the sulphur. BioAgronics also has a product that loosens up the soil and i've talked to alot of guys who use it and it works. You add it in with your glyphosate in the spring and spray it on . It works with the negative chage of the clay and makes it a positve charge the same as the calcium and magnesium. To positives won't stick togther. There is also a tool that measures compaction i forget what it's called i'll look it up i know it only 200 or 300 dollars for the manula one.
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Post by AGGuy on Jul 30, 2009 17:40:18 GMT -5
here is the link to the compaction tool www.specmeters.com/Soil_Compaction/Soil_Compaction_Meter.htmlthere are more expensive ones on the market but i think this one is 235.00 i know you can get them up here in canada. I had to get to work so i had to leave things short on the previous reply here is more. Clay has a negative charge and calcium and magnesium have positive charges which when they all get wet they bond togther then in the summer when the soil dries the soil gets rock hard and ever cracks. As well the calcium and magnesium when in higher levels can also tie up the sulphur. In this case you think you have lots of sulphur so you cut back when you should be adding more, canola needs sulphur. Seeding into moist soils can and will cause plow pan or hard pan ( same thing ) its a compaction layer down a few inches . The roots can not penatrate this layer and they loose vital nutrients and moisture. if you have this a shallow tilling will break this up. Again BioAgronics does have a product for this. it changes the clay from a negative charge to a psoitve charge so it is like tryng to push to magnets togther. Soil tilth is very important and over looked. I've seen soil that had this product on it and a shovel goes in 4-5 inches were before application it went in half an inch. Remeber the soil is the key to a good crop everything relies on it. If your roots cannot get down to nutrients and moisture your killing your yield. Most suppliers walk through your field yepping how great the crop looks and yet they pay no attention to what they are standing on. I carry a shovel with me when i go into any field at anytime and i see what the soil is doing. I've even dug down 3 feet to see whats going on . I talked about tramlines before to help with the reduction of compaction. It is a huge issue. if anyone is interested in a compaction meter i will try and find out were in canada you can get one and i'll pass on the informatoin and you can take it from there. I do realize some of you guys know these things are an issue but your not sure were to start . If there is a big enough demand i can buy the compaction meter and in the spring or next summer we can work something out were i come out and WE BOTH go over a field ( that the only way to learn)
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Post by maybee on Jul 31, 2009 9:03:31 GMT -5
I had one quarter of canola that started of very slow and all the leaves were cupped. I thought maybe i had a sulfer problem. So i took tissue samples. The results came back vh on sulfer, h on calcium, s on magnessium. looking at my old soil tests it was vh on all these nutriants on this quarter. So that made me think no problem with sulfer. I also applyied sulfer. But you were saying vh calcium and magnesium can tie up sulfer. My question is, is it possible to be lacking sulfer even though it shows v high on my tissue tests on this poorly growing canola? I felt my last few canola crops could have been better. Or what else could cause this problem? It seems every time I have any kind of problem my local field scouts just say, its the year or enviromental factor. A good example is one year I had canola not germinateing and what was had poor vigour. I was told everybody had that problem that year. Latter in the season everybody around me had nice canola and mine looked like shit. So I sent in a seed sample and in their results they told me not to use it for seed. I will buy a compaction tester because 235 dollars is a pretty cheap investment. Crop problems is very costly.
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Post by maybee on Jul 31, 2009 9:10:02 GMT -5
I forgot to add much latter the cupping came out and it started growing better. Think i lost allot off yield potential though.
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Post by AGguy on Jul 31, 2009 10:30:05 GMT -5
VH calcium and VH magnisium will cause your soil to harden up and if you have VH Sulphur that would mean it is getting tied up. if you have only been adding the usual amount say 5-15 pounds of S you should not have VH Sulphur unless you have other issues. Since all three are high then there is your problem. This is were a foliar applied nutrient would really work. The great escape is always weather god forbid if they ever blamed themselves. When you get a soil test done they should be able to explain everything and if something don't look right like VH calcium magnesium and sulphur they should tell you why before selling you the N,P,K,S the reason they don;t is because they don't know. Now i'm no expert either but the calcium magnesium sulphur has come across my plate before . There can be so many underlying problems that dealers don't know because they don't make money off it. I think every farmer should invest in a few tools a compaction meter, soil sampler, a shovel, and a few good books like weeds insects and disease. Tissue test are an outline but they are cheap and are a tool and they can be off not usually but they can. As well cupping of leaves can be other things as well heres a link www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex3526#similarthe truth be known that farmers get alot of heat behind there backs from dealers. they complain farmers just want cheap product but it is them who have did this. For years they have just focused on Chem and fert becuase they make alot of money on this. Now when there is a problem they have know idea but they know how much chem and fert you'll need. years of miss using the land due to misunderstanding has now made soil problem start to show up and you retailers have know clue so weather MUST be the problem. if you have poor germination the seed is in the ground so look at the seed and soil. The unused canola seed gets returned and is reused for the next year so why can't you have bad seed maybe it was damaged. when i was with Opti-Crop they looked at all the little things that could rob you of yield. if you have 10 things that take 1% of your yield away that equals to 10% yield loss. each on there own don't do much but add them up. Everything has to work togther. How many of your agonomists check for seed and fertilizer placement as you seed, or check air preasure on your air carts. make sure it's calibrated seeding rates ect. Most guys only know what they can sell you. But on that ΒΌ i would take care of the vh calcium and vh magnsium by and hardness by adding 5 oz of Electro-Dyn , treat the seed with a seed coating then add there dyna-gro. So your taking care of your hardpan and compaction issue, getting those roots to grow to et more nutrients and adding a foliar nutrient to top up any lacking nutrient and stimulate top and bottom growth Total aprox cost 15.00 per acre . But we would cut some N,P,K, and cut your herbicied rates to so what you cut back would pay for the extra products. So No extra money out but fixing a soil problem creating healthier plants and soil which creates a better yield or else have less loss due to weather.
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Post by AgGuy on Aug 1, 2009 19:30:54 GMT -5
Now for the second problem you likely have and this is a serious one as well. I will email you with this one. This is the stuff you charge for and i'll tell you for free but i'll do it through email O.K. My wife thinks i'm nuts for giving this information away for free.I'll email you sunday but what you will need is your soil samples for that field for as long as you can. If you have used the same lab thats great and if not group them into piles according to company. You will need to look for a soluable salt reading and i just hope it's on your soil tests.
I'll email you sunday.
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Post by maybee on Aug 7, 2009 13:13:48 GMT -5
Could not find start a new topic A thought that I have is. Liquid fert is supposed to be safer on the land. But does it not have very high salt levels?
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Post by AGGuy on Aug 8, 2009 18:54:14 GMT -5
There is whats known as a salt index . table salt is at 165 on this index here are some others, i don't have them all but heres what i have. Anhydrous ammonia 47.1 82-0-0 urea 75.4 46-0-0 Ammonia sulphate 69 21-0-024 Potash 116.3 0-0-60 mono ammonium phosphate 29.9 11-48-0
i need to find some liquid fertilizer levels but with liquid you get more bang for your buck and there are ways to use less almost cutting your N by half. As well cutting your other nutrients and going to a foliar spray will lessen the amount going into the ground.
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